A Negative Answer to a Question of Praeger and Seress on Minimal Subdegrees of Primitive Groups of Twisted Wreath Type
Manuscript 11 October 2026 · Online 11 October 2026
Abstract
Let \(G\) be a finite primitive permutation group of twisted wreath type, with socle \(T^k\) and point stabiliser \(P\), and let \(H\) be its primitive component: the group induced on one coordinate of the product decomposition \(\Delta^k\), where \(|\Delta|=|T|\). Praeger and Seress (Oberwolfach Report 12/2005, on joint work with Giudici, Li and Trofimov) state that the least non-trivial subdegree satisfies \(\operatorname{MinSubDeg}(G)\le k\cdot\operatorname{MinSubDeg}(H)\), and they ask in their Question 4 (p. 692) whether this inequality is always strict. We give a negative answer to Question 4. Let \(P=\operatorname{PGL}(3,4)\) act on the \(21\) points of the projective plane of order \(4\), let \(Q\) be the stabiliser of a point \(y\), let \(T=\operatorname{PSL}(2,4)\cong A_5\), and let \(Q\) act on \(T\) through its action on the quotient space \(\mathbb{F}_4^3/y\). The twisted wreath product \(G=T\operatorname{twr} P\), acting on its base group, is primitive of twisted wreath type of degree \(60^{21}\), with \(k=21\), \(H=A_5\times A_5\), \(\operatorname{MinSubDeg}(H)=12\) and \(\operatorname{MinSubDeg}(G)=252=21\cdot12\). By a reduction which is known in substance, and which we prove again, the last equality is a statement about the subgroups of \(\operatorname{PGL}(3,4)\) of order greater than \(240\). We prove this statement in two ways: computer-assisted, by exhaustive exact computations with independently written programs; and by a written argument from the list of the maximal subgroups of \(\operatorname{PSL}(3,4)\) and \(\operatorname{PGL}(3,4)\) in the tables of Connor and Leemans. Computer-assisted, we also find equality for the top groups \(\operatorname{P\Gamma L}(3,4)\) \((315=21\cdot15)\) and \(\operatorname{PSL}(3,5)\) \((465=31\cdot15)\), where \(H\) is the full holomorph of \(A_5\), and strict inequality for \(\operatorname{PSL}(3,4)\) and \(\operatorname{P\Sigma L}(3,4)\). The full paper of Giudici, Li, Praeger, Seress and Trofimov (2006) and its companion paper were not accessible to us; we make no statement that depends on their content. No answer to Question 4 was found in the literature accessible to us; a search that finds nothing is not a proof of novelty. We claim neither that the example is the smallest one nor a classification of the cases of equality, and the question remains open under additional hypotheses. This is an unrefereed note.
Record
- Affiliation
- Mercury Software GmbH
- Contact
- [email protected] · GitHub
- Result
- Complete negative answer (an explicit primitive group of twisted wreath type)
- Categories
- math.GR · math.CO
- Manuscript
- 11 October 2026
- Online release
- 11 October 2026
- Version
- 1.0
- License
- Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International
Files and verification
The PDF is the canonical reading copy. The source archive contains the LaTeX manuscript, bibliography, reproducibility material, and audit documents without build artefacts.
Citation
Alper Ferudun, “A Negative Answer to a Question of Praeger and Seress on Minimal Subdegrees of Primitive Groups of Twisted Wreath Type,” EulerSolve Research Papers, OWR-793-006, 2026. https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.23299865.
BibTeX
@misc{Ferudun2026Owr793006,
author = {Ferudun, Alper},
title = {A Negative Answer to a Question of Praeger and Seress on Minimal Subdegrees of Primitive Groups of Twisted Wreath Type},
year = {2026},
howpublished = {EulerSolve Research Papers},
url = {https://eulersolve.org/papers/owr-793-006/},
doi = {10.5281/zenodo.23299865},
note = {OWR-793-006; unrefereed preprint}
}